Ne mogu se odluciti.. :)

[sima hrabri]

taj seiko je skroz simpatican, jedino sto je mnogo mali za jedan pilotski sat, precnik je samo 35mm.

[ivourar1]

sve što je dragon napisao potpisujem! sa carinom nikad ne znaš, a i špediteri deru po svojim nekom tarifama, tako budi oprezan.
kod Malbašića fakat imaš super izbor i cimn ih još za neki popust na keš.
što se Wengera tiče, prodajem ga i zbilja je odnos cijena kvaliteta super, a i imati ćeš sat koji nije tako masovno u upotrebi kao Casio.

[aleks88]

sve što je dragon napisao potpisujem! sa carinom nikad ne znaš, a i špediteri deru po svojim nekom tarifama, tako budi oprezan.
kod Malbašića fakat imaš super izbor i cimn ih još za neki popust na keš.
što se Wengera tiče, prodajem ga i zbilja je odnos cijena kvaliteta super, a i imati ćeš sat koji nije tako masovno u upotrebi kao Casio.

Hajde mi pomozi da razrijesim jednu dilemu.
Naime, postoji jedan model, WENGER 72094 kojeg ne mogu naci na oficijalnom sajtu.
Reci mi jesi li ti imao taj model u ponudi?

Znaci, ovo je WENGER 72091
Wenger-72091_Aero&#1.jpg

a ovo bi trebalo da bude 72094
L10796760..jpg

Razlika bi navodno bila u ovim nitnama na kaisu jer na oficijalnom sajtu kod slike tog modela nema tog detalja.
http://www.wengerna.com/aerograph-72091
Medjutim, problem je sto se na internetu mogu naci modeli 72091 sa tim..

No, najveca nedoumica je oko modela 72094 koji je fantomski.. Nema ga na oficijalnom sajtu.
Na jednom forumu sam naletio na raspravu, neki jadnik je kupio 72091 a dobio 72094 pa mu se pokvario.

Joj sad gledam sta sam ispisao.
Ne znam sto mi treba ovo u zivotu, vec 4 dana samo citam o satovima.. Tacno osjecam zamor..

[ANGEL]

HAHAHAHAHA, slatke muke jel da???
Ne brini ništa, glava će boleti sve više i više, ali na kraju sve to prođe....



Moguće da je jedan stariji po godini proizvodnje od drugog pa ga zato nema, stariji model recimo.

SAVET...
Moraš u prodavnici pogledati neki model sata, kako ti stoji na ruci, njegov prečnik, njegova veličina, izgled pa po njemu tražiti sat. Slika je jedno, sat uživo drugo. Neki su fotogenični, a uživo izgled očajan. Neki nisu nimalo fotogenični dok ime je izgled fenomenalan, meni recimo Fortis, ni jedan mi nije lep na slikama dok je na ruci nešto drugo!

Pogledaj Luminox, Victorinox, Traser, satove...


http://www.traserh3watches.com/en/home/index.php
http://www.victorinox.com/
http://www.121time.com/
http://www.luminox.com/

[dragon]

Obično poslednje slovo/broj u oznaci sata predstavlja narukvicu sa kojom model dolazi... čelik, koža, sintetika, guma, itd. Tako da je vrlo verovatno da je razlika upravo u samim narukvicama i, iako nisi u mogućnosti da nađeš na zvaničnom sajtu Wenger-a model sa oznakom 72094, to ne znači da se isti nije proizvodio. Najlakše i najsigurnije ti je da poštalješ mail Wenger-u i da ih pitaš konkretno šta te interesuje.

I dalje mislim da ti je najbolja i najsigurnija kupovina upravo Casio, bilo digitalni tipa G-Shock ili neki analogni model, eventualno Seiko 5 serija i to ne preko ebay-a već kod lokalnih distributera. No, odluka je tvoja. Najveći problem je što si se ograničio na 80€ i ne želiš da ideš preko te cifre, nebitno iz kojih razloga.
Ne znam koliki ti je zglob, ali 35-36mm je zaista mali prečnik i ne znam puno ljudi kojima ta dimenzija odgovara ili su voljni da nose satove tog prečnika i ne, taj Seiko ne bi dobro izgledao na onim pilotskim debelim kožnim narukvicama, Nato/Zulu može. Tako da dobro razmisli pre nego li se zaletiš sa kupovinom.

Još par predloga, neki spominjani neki ne... uglavnom, većina će na nekoj Nato narukvici izgledati odlično a sa cenom su tu, od 80 do 120 dolara...

Wenger 72096
Citizen AT0200-05E
Citizen BM6400-00E
Citizen BM8180-03E
Seiko SNDA67
Citizen BM8475-00X

I satovi Helenarou "proizvođača"... Kineski mehanizmi, kineska kućišta al su oko 100 dolara i ima avijatičarskih modela... Nije baš preporuka sa moje strane, ali možda se tebi i nešto dopadne...
http://www.helenarou.com/index.html

Pozdrav

[dragon]

@dragon: Ticino pilotski satovi su mi se bas dopali, ali nigde nisam nasao podatak o tome koja je masina unutra. Asian movement? Jel imas u rukavu jos neki takav manje poznati brend sa pilotskim satovima po narodskim cenama?

Modeli sa automatskim mehanizmom bi trebalo da budu sa Miyota 8215 dok modeli koji su na ručno navijanje imaju azijske mehanizme.

Da budem iskren, do 200€ reći ću... LACO, LACO i samo LACO. Još priupitaš dal skidaju onih 19% sa cene obzirom da BiH nije u EU i ako skinu VAT, eto ti izuzetan sat po relativno pristupačnoj ceni. Mislim da nema proizvođača koji može da nadmaši LACO kako po kvalitetu tako i po ceni u rangu do 200€.
Za nekih $250 wilsonwatchworks radi solidne satove sa Seagull mehanizmima i svakako treba obratiti pažnju na njega, ali to je već dobrano preko 200€ kada se uračunaju i ostale takse i dadžbine i opasno se približavamo ceni jednog Steinharta, Prometheusa, Archimeda, Arista, itd.
Uvek ostaju Rusi, sa pristojnim cenama (pogotovo kada se odbije 19% VAT) i sasvim pristojnim kvalitetom izrade za satove sa mehanizmima na ručno navijanje.
Recimo...
Aviator 24-hour Watch
Aviator Flightwatch "Classic"
Aviator 43

Pozdrav

[aleks88]

@angel, muke teske da..
ne znam je l` dobro ili lose sto sam se toliko zainteresovao.. samo citam o satovima.

@dragon, hvala puno na linkovima.
sto se tice tih 80 eura.. i to mi je mnogo trenutno
situacija nije bas sjajna, ali kad skontam mog`o bih se odreci neceg drugog pa dodati jos nekih 20.. ali opet skoro nista ne postizem time..
jel ima neko iskustva od vas sa tim da skinu tih 19 % sa nekog artikla?
kod koga ste to probali?

e da, obim od 35 mm.. paaa velik sam ja decko.. krupan poprlicno, tako da si to u pravu, sat te velicine bi smjesno izgledao na mojoj ruci
mislim da cu se na kraju ipak odlucit za onaj casio koji sam postavio u prvom postu ukoliko ne naletim na neki opasan popust kod ovih avijaticarskih..
naime, metalna je narukvica.. dolazi ljeto, znojenje.. takodje, lakse mi je uparit metalnu narukvicu sa tom nekom ljetnom odjecom nego neki od ovih sa bez ili crnom..

[dragon]

Nikako ne može biti loše to što si rešio da odradiš "domaći" pre kupovine sata i saznaš šta je najbolje za novce koje si izdvojio. Jedino loše može biti kada krene da te drma groznica za satovima, ali bože moj, tako se počinje i većina nas je to prošla ili prolazi.

Victorinox, Luminox i Traser za koje je Angel postavio linkove su odlični satovi, ali mislim da dobrano prevazilaze granice tvog budžeta.

35mm jeste mali prečnik, prigodniji za žensku ruku nego li za mušku ali klasičniji i elegantni satovi se i prave u manjem prečniku pa nije retkost videti satove daleko poznatijih i luksuznijih proizvođača u prečniku od 35mm do recimo 38mm. Sve zavisi kako gledaš na stvari i dal si ti spreman da nosiš sat manjeg prečnika ili ne.
VAT ili PDV od 19% se odnosi na zemlje EU gde je u cenu sata uračunat porez i ukoliko nisi stanovnik jedne od zemalja članica EU, možeš da tražiš da ti odbiju od cene sata tih 19%.

Jedan savet, ukoliko ti sat nije preko potreban za posao ili neku drugu priliku koja uskoro dolazi, možda je najbolje da se strpiš koji mesec, vidiš dal možeš da ostaviš sa strane još koji € ne bi li barem malo uvećao budžet za kupovinu i onda uzmeš neki malo bolji sat koji ti se zaista dopada. Izsiljena kupovina često i nije najbolje rešenje, pogotovo ako trenutna finansijska situacija nije baš sjajna.

[dragon]

Na kraju, mislim da je Casio odličan izbor. Evo ti jedan opis sa drugog foruma za model Casio edifice 527L-1AVDF, možda ti pomogne prilikom donošenja odluka o kupovini!

to begin, one of the snaps i took in a hurry, to illustrate the text. a bit of a tease, hope you don't mind
(note: first attempts at watch photography. sorry about the wb, it _is_ off, the case of this watch is colorless, aka grey/silver)

the road to this purchase is a rather winding one (isn't it always?). i have a thing for timepieces (known issue, since childhood, nothing helped), and i have another thing for sliderules. as there's yet another for aviation.. e6b it had to be. now, this is the main requirement, but there were others.

i have been wearing a watch eversince i can remember, it used to be really cheap junk some time ago: as long as it kept time, i was happy, if it also had some features ("chrono. yyyhhaaa!", you know..), it was great. the first problem i had was that, though i loved my watches, cheap as they were, i didn't understand the concept of leaving them behind whenever (to protect from shock, water, etc). water was the main issue, as quartz digital display watches are basically indestructible by design. finding a decently waterproofed watch was more complicated than you would imagine today. funny enough, the first "success" was a casio (which still works today, more than 10y after, though the case itself is broken and it cannot take a strap anymore).

another issue i discovered after a while was with reading the display. i love digital watches for their price, features, and reliability. but when it comes to reading the damn time, the love afair ends. and i wear a watch on my wrist for the precise reason that i want to read the damn time once in a while. i learned how to read an analog watch when i could barely spell/write (about 3 or 4, i think), perhaps that's the reason why every time i read a digital clock, i see an analog face, and only than i understand what time it is. if i do quick time calculations, i do them the same way. if i am very tired, it helps a lot to be able to look at the watch and do the reading and the time calculation, in one glance. you get the picture. personal preference, for sure.

so:

- slide rule (e6b - like). it is to be used, so it has to be accurate and useable
- analog display (or combined)
- quartz, battery or solar (solar being preferred). not automatic, not manual wind (shock vulnerable, G-forces vulnerable, unless you pay an arm and a leg, that is; accuracy is also far superior for quartz for the same price, and probably for 10x the price as well)
- internal e6b preferred, with crown (sliderule protected by the crystal, instead of exposed to knocks, and general wear and tear)
- clean and discrete face/design (as much as possible for an e6b). no useless markings
- 24h/zulu hand (pereferably not tiny dial, fourth hand on the main dial)
- additional features to taste (chrono, alarm).
- i happen to hate "integrated" bracelets. i don't like the "lock in", i don't like the looks, so avoided if possible.

i had seen the edifice 518 some time ago. something about the design didn't quite click. (maybe that inner circle, the integrated bracelet, don't know). i was pretty sure i had to get the nighthawk or the skyhawk at and get it over with (if you are thinking "why not", there are about 1k reasons not to, down here: one for every buck) and than i saw



ticked all the boxes, except for the zulu. argggh. i'd rather have the zulu and not the chrono. oh well. was looking at the torgoens (those guys seem to know what i want..), but finally got this localy.

some not-so-obvious specs:

- the chrono does not allow split times (like the torgoen eta movement). no big deal, but something to be aware of
- there is _no_ zulu/24h, despite what some sellers say. sorry
- the crown at 3 is screwdown. the sliderule crown at 8 is not.
- the timekeeping second hand is not the "big" one. that one is dead weight unless the chrono is in use. the small dial at the 6 o'clock position is the second hand.

it is _quiet_. seriously. i could hear all the quartz analog watches i had so far (including the previous casio, tough solar). they drive me mad, i can hear them from half a meter, easily, same with mechanical watches, they can keep me awake at night. i cannot hear this one if i put my ear to it. dead quiet. amazing. perhaps the mass of the case alone is enough to absorb the noise, perhaps it's because the second hand is so small, so light, and thus requires such little torque to move. if i start the chrono, i can hear the second hand for the chrono ("the big one"), but barely. it is still quieter than anything i have ever seen to date. nice.

the size of the face is imense. the watch itself is quite big, though i have a relatively tiny wrist, i love it, doesn't bother me at all (yet..). the size of the face means i can dead-reckon the seconds -- to 10-15 or so -- just by looking at the minutes hand. no kidding. this makes me even sadder that they didn't include a zulu hand. actually, the main face and movement should be 24h, too. what's the point of 12h anyway, unless the face needs to be 1cm across? there's 24h in a day! arghh.

the cristal is flat. can't comment on the scratch resistance so soon, it is said to be mineral, but not saphire (not surprising, for the price), and "scratch resistant" (but that's relative, with no scale mentioned, the term means nothing). i see no mention or evidence of any antiglare treatment, but in practice the readability is actually quite good (might have something to do with the size..). here's an attempt to show some glare, while fooling around with the camera:



there is lume on the hour and minute hand, and on the hour markers. it has lasted throughout the night without problems (and without being annoying) after i got it from the shop. however, being winter time, so mostly covered outdoors, only exposed to faint indoors light, it doesn't seem to manage to catch enough light to charge back. hmm. will have to see about that. on the other hand, the thin reflective gold accents on the watch, together with it's size, mean that, so far, it has to be pitch dark to not be able to read the time. that's actually much better in practice than the previous (tough solar), with it's nifty autolight and lume. the test was involuntary, while driving, at night, in town: i just glanced at the watch, and had the time, never thought twice, i realized later that it didn't use to be so easy. i am actually finding the bling (gold plating) useful, what do you know.. (i was afraid i'd hate the ogld accents, at first)



the lume actually looks nice when it "works".

the sliderule: has proven quite accurate so far, and loads of fun (nobody seems to understand what the point is, btw. oh well, no wonder it's so hard to find an e6b watch). the alignment is good out of the box (unlike one other example i saw in a shop, which had a lot of play on the moving part of the sliderule, and looked completely out of whack, thus useless -- so be careful). it is easy to read in decent light, harder as the light levels drop. i guess the white face version would be a partial solution to that, but i decided already that's a bit too "in your face" for me, so i'm okay. the only complaint here is the position of the crown: i find myself actually wearing the watch on my right hand. now, i do this with all my watches, from time to time (keeps them on their toes, you know...), but with this one, i am forced: the sliderule crown is obviously the main thing you need to reach. the main adjustment crown, you don't need 99% of the time, the chrono pushers can be reached either way just fine. sliderule crown on the outside, casio, wth.

the leather bracelet. mhhh. apart from the fact it's "not my thing" (it is destructible, which is wrong ), this one is also a bit stiff, and with that folding/colapsing buckle it can be downright annoying. maybe it will soften with wear, but i might have to get a metal bracelet for "real work" anyway. i suspect people with a bigger wrist will be less bothered, btw. it also makes some weird clicking noise on the lugs which i don't understand (probably has some sort of metal inner jacket to protect it from grinding itself on the lugs?)

overall, the finish looks good, i am a bit surprised actually, can't say i can fault it, for the price (and for quite some way up as well). the weight adds to the solid feel, it's just right, not "overweight". the only issue build-wise so far is that the chrono pushers tend to stick, which is not such a big deal in itself, but can be quite annoying. i also like it that the case is not as reflective as it looks in most product pictures (proper brushed finish would be even better, an option of a mate black anodized case and matching bracelet would be very welcome)

i'd say, for a sliderule (e6b) watch on the cheap, this is way beyond my expectations. not a navitimer, but not trying to be one either. fair enough.

hope this helps someone make a choice. see you around. any questions/clarifications, or feedback, are welcome.




Izvor / Source: WUS

[ANGEL]

Hajde da pripomognem @dragon-ovoj ponudi, Casio EdiFice EF-305 1A imam ako se ne varam nekih 12-15 godina, još radi podjednako dobro kao i ostali moji satovi, bez ikakvih kašnjenja. Kupljen je za nekih 50 Maraka, Eura šta kog da je bilo tada...

Pogledaj @Hadži Dalibor-ov sat, nedavno je kupio novog Casia pa ga pitaj za utiske...
Naravno da je dobro što čitaš o satovima, dobro došao!
To je jedan predskazatelj da ćeš vrlo ubzo kupiti još jedan sat kada te zadovolji već ovaj koji još nisi ni kupio...